Curse

I Ithorian I · Dec 23, 2008, 05:35 AM // 05:35

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Basic Weapon : 10 reward points per item , 50 to unlock Fancy.

500 reward points = 100zkey = 500k @ 5k per key.

Fancy Weapon: 20 reward points per item , 50 to unlock Exotic.

1000 reward points = 200zkey = 1000k @ 5k per key.

Total Cost to Unlock PvP Weapon Skins: 300zkeys / 1.5 Million Gold.

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Basic Armor : 20 reward points per item , 50 to unlock Fancy Armor

1000 reward points = 200zkey = 1000k @ 5k per key.

Total Cost to Unlock PvP Armor: 200zkeys / 1 Million Gold.

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Total Cost to Unlock PvP Items: 2500 Reward Points / 500zkeys / 2.5 Million Gold. (without actually purchasing any exotic armor / weapons)

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Hey there,

The above is just a summary of the total cost to fully unlock PvP armor/weapon skins on an account. Now here's where the problem lies, Before the introduction of Zainshen Keys balth faction served no use other then to trade it for a) Flames - b) Tournament Tokens - c) PvP Unlocks.
Once your account was UAX you really had nothing to spend balth faction on besides pvp unlocks - This meant anyone regulary playing at's would unlock each tier of PvP reward skins without losing anything as substantial as you would now opting to go for unlocks instead of Zainshen Keys.

Now I love the idea of PvP skins , but the problem now is there not accessible to anyone who didnt unlock the exotic tiers 'pre zkey'.

To put this a different way , you would have too:

Finish top 9-16 in a Monthly Tournament (GvG) : 550 reward points (silver trim) , It would take you around 4 months to unlock these skins playing at the very highest level of competitive play.

Finish Number 1 in 2 Hero Battle Monthly Tournaments (plus an extra 500rp to unlock some skins - but , if your names not Ekelon its unlikley this is a viable option) - only 2 months , but again , only an option for maybe 2-3 players in the game.

So when you summarise it all and actually take a look at the costs and time it would take to unlock these skins today and how much money you would lose - I can see why PvE players and PvP players 'pre zkey' are frustrated as this avenue of decking a pvp character in decent armor is just not an option , or ever will be this late on in the game - it simply does not make sense (you could kit a pve character out for 2.5 million gold).

AND HERE'S THE GOOD NEWS ! .. Your 2.5 Million Gold out of pocket , and your character still looks like trash because you cant afford to buy any exotic unlocks !.

MY PROPOSAL

Ok so there 'is' a simple solution to this - remove the requirement to unlock each tier , it just makes sense in everyway.
So before the cynical people jump in right refrain from posting untill you read all, Basically the cost of exotic items still scale to the region of 300 reward points per unlock - now this is still a hefty sum to pay for a skin and still a very demanding amount for someone not playing 'high end' competitive play.
This would make this option available to the other 90% of people playing guildwars.

OR .. Make the tiers unlock based on TOTAL FACTION earned - so players can still opt for zainshen keys.

Flame Shield on ^^.

Icy The Mage · Dec 23, 2008, 06:04 AM // 06:04

OR .. Make the tiers unlock based on TOTAL FACTION earned - so players can still opt for zainshen keys.

No. This would be completely retarded and not help the pre-zkey people in any way whatsoever as you're suggesting.

Gift3d · Dec 23, 2008, 06:13 AM // 06:13

It's a tooooooooootal garbage system. I'm guessing it was thrown in on a whim and not really thought about, at all.

Spend all those potential zkeys to make a skin available on ONE PVP CHARACTER ONLY?

I don't know what the hell they'd to do fix this, if anything at all, but the total balthazar cap sounds like a step in the right direction. I'm comfortable with saying all my pvp characters won't ever see some cool armor skins... haha.

I Ithorian I · Dec 23, 2008, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by IcyFiftyFive

OR .. Make the tiers unlock based on TOTAL FACTION earned - so players can still opt for zainshen keys.

No. This would be completely retarded and not help the pre-zkey people in any way whatsoever as you're suggesting.

My proposal is about making it more accessable , I have the 3 tiers unlocked but dont feel I need to be rewarded for choosing unlocks over tournament tokens , because at the time there was always someone in your guild that would stock up on these to allow your guild to AT .. should they not be rewarded?.

But the bit you quoted was just a suggestion and I did offer an alternative if your unable to read parts that are not bold.

thor hammerbane · Dec 23, 2008, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Good idea. There really shouldn't be pve only skins, puts the pvp players who hate pve at a disadvantage. the whole reward system was put in place because of this common complain by pvp players, but the system itself shows anet's reluctance to listen. They kept their foot in the door the entire time.

IXI Nine IXI · Dec 23, 2008, 07:21 AM // 07:21

/signed for a re-working of the system.

My personal opinion is that the skins should be unlocked in the same way the skills are. So if a skin is unlocked on one character it is available to all other PvP characters as well.

Also, it would be nice to use balthazaar faction to unlock weapons and armor instead of RP's, but thats just because I'm a GvG scrub

Abedeus · Dec 23, 2008, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Imo 500k faction for Basic, 1mln for Fancy, 1,5mln for Exotic.

RotteN · Dec 23, 2008, 08:00 AM // 08:00

they should indeed review the whole system now that they have an idea of the value of RPs (roughly 1k per point).

So basically you're still paying 200k for one of the high-end skins.

I wouldn't remove the whole tier system completely, but i'd def reduce the amount of purchases needed to advance to the next tier (to let's say 20 or 25 instead of 50)

at 20 purchases needed you're looking at a total cost of 600k to unlock weapons and 400k to unlock armor, so 1 mill total. Still expensive, but at least better than 2,5 mil total

upier · Dec 23, 2008, 08:32 AM // 08:32

This allows you to obtain PvE rewards without doing PvE.
It makes no sense whatsoever for the prices to be comparable. You aren't paying just for the luxury of having the items - you are paying for the luxury of not having to PvE to obtain them on top of that.

I'd rather have them focusing on fixing PvP, then looking into your ass looking fat while wearing the outfit of choice.
Do PvE if your priority is being a pretty snowflake!

GhostKairi · Dec 23, 2008, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

This allows you to obtain PvE rewards without doing PvE.
It makes no sense whatsoever for the prices to be comparable. You aren't paying just for the luxury of having the items - you are paying for the luxury of not having to PvE to obtain them on top of that.

I'd rather have them focusing on fixing PvP, then looking into your ass looking fat while wearing the outfit of choice.
Do PvE if your priority is being a pretty snowflake!

/win
gogo1234567

Skyy High · Dec 23, 2008, 09:15 AM // 09:15

They should have just made the rewards unlocks, instead of purchased for a particular character. Last I checked, the point of PvP chars was that you could re-roll them easily, and rewards go completely against that idea.

.Cookie. · Dec 23, 2008, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Won't happen. Theres no way that Anet would give something new to PvP players. When they put the new armors & weapons in PvP Rewards, everyone was like, wtf they did something right. But ofc in few days they remove them from PvP rewards. PvE players allways win.

Yarly · Dec 23, 2008, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

This allows you to obtain PvE rewards without doing PvE.
It makes no sense whatsoever for the prices to be comparable. You aren't paying just for the luxury of having the items - you are paying for the luxury of not having to PvE to obtain them on top of that.

I'd rather have them focusing on fixing PvP, then looking into your ass looking fat while wearing the outfit of choice.
Do PvE if your priority is being a pretty snowflake!

This post is the best way to look at it. If people cry about not being able to earn reward points to unlock exotic weapons and fancy armor then they either get better at the game or go pve and get them. You can't cry about 15^50 r9 non-inscribable crystallines being rare and hella expensive because thats the way they were meant to be. So why should pvp rewards be any differen't. Screw being accessible to every dick and tom who didn't work for it. If Anet handed everything to us on a silver platter the game would be even more dead than it is.

And for f%#ks sake don't turn this into a pvp vs pve cryfest.

Burton2000 · Dec 23, 2008, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by .Cookie.

Won't happen. Theres no way that Anet would give something new to PvP players. When they put the new armors & weapons in PvP Rewards, everyone was like, wtf they did something right. But ofc in few days they remove them from PvP rewards. PvE players allways win.

This.
Plus the system we have at the moment is good enough because if you use pvp characters and want them to have nice skins you wont need the money from Z keys.

Abedeus · Dec 23, 2008, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Uhm. Wait.

You have to spend 600k to get a sword you could buy in PvE for less than 40k?

Here's what's better:

1. Get 45k faction.
2. Convert to zkeys.
3. Sell them. 45000/5000 = 9 zkeys times 5 = 45k gold.
4. Make a character in Nightfall, get to Kamadan.
5. Buy a sword for laughable price on a forum, ask to meet in Kamadan or Great Temple.
6. DING DING DING you saved crapload of faction and gold.

upier · Dec 23, 2008, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Uhm. Wait.

You have to spend 600k to get a sword you could buy in PvE for less than 40k?

Here's what's better:

1. Get 45k faction.
2. Convert to zkeys.
3. Sell them. 45000/5000 = 9 zkeys times 5 = 45k gold.
4. Make a character in Nightfall, get to Kamadan.
5. Buy a sword for laughable price on a forum, ask to meet in Kamadan or Great Temple.
6. DING DING DING you saved crapload of faction and gold.

This is just so simplified it's not even funny.

Issue 1:
Tolkano is ALWAYS there.
You can only get the laughable price if someone is actually selling what you want.
And this also means that you aren't limited by the number of items out there - if you have enough points, you are able to craft the weapon regardless if anyone is selling WITH the stats you want!

Issue 2:
Like I said - we are dealing with PvE rewards, that you can obtain without doing PvE.
You chose to not PvE and you expect to have PvE rewards. Pay up for the privilege.

Issue 3:
You get what you need for free in PvP.
I don't remember having to obtain E-Surge for EACH PvP mesmer I created. Yet, I had to go out and cap it for every one of my PvE guys.
I also need to pay for each Sup vigor rune I want to add to my armor sets.
Once again - free for PvP guys.
Same thing with dye, insignias, inscriptions, weapons, armor, ...
Since you need to pay for the basic things in PvE - it makes sense that the vanity items cost a bit less in PvE, then if you are given the basic things for free (in PvP).

Issue 4:
You can craft the weapons with any kind of stats.
I'd LOVE to get my hands on the Willcrusher staff with +60hp in PvE.

Considering that - a very high price makes absolute sense!

Orange Milk · Dec 23, 2008, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Yes, [rawr] wins all the time because they have characters that dress pretty, not because they are smart, coordinated, skilled and adaptable.

PvP is not and never has been about looking good. I have never given a shit about what someone is wearing or what weapon they use. The only time I really pay attention to weapons is A) a shield on any caster that is /W. or B) a Martial weapon and a Shield on a caster when I'm E denying as a Mes.

I never pay attention to what someones armor looks like, there is no point to that since inscriptions became universal.

Exotic skins look like ass when your lying on your face dead on the ground. No one cares.

The Blade From Hell · Dec 23, 2008, 02:30 PM // 14:30

You know, whoever comes here bringing that oh armor doesnt make you play good has the shittest argument ever. No one said it makes you play good, ur practically having a conversation with yourself. Some of us like to look good, wether you do or not is not our problem or concern. The majority of players like to look good hence playing with pve chars atm. Im just tired of people thinking theyre cool cause they say some righteous crap bout how armor doesnt make you play good when its not even related to the discussion. Have a useful thing to say or dont post wow.

Abedeus · Dec 23, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Considering that - a very high price makes absolute sense!

10 times more doesn't make sense.

Okay, say you want an Elemental Sword. It's usually 100k + 1-10 ecto, depending on quality. You get the req9, but empty or with crappy inscription.

You would need 1mln gold worth points to get it via PvP rewards.

While a better way is to get the sword even overpriced in PvE. 100k + 20e, sounds realistic? That's 200k.

Then you buy 15^50 for 5k. +30hp is 4k, too.

That's 209k, 210k tops. And you just saved 790k.

Quote:

You can craft the weapons with any kind of stats.

Only one one character. If you delete it, boom, you lost points.

I think the point of this thread is - PvP Reward Points are useless.

Orange Milk · Dec 23, 2008, 04:19 PM // 16:19

@ The Blade From Hell

The OP is sad because Exotic things are hard to unlock and that he really wants to use those RP's for ZKeys instead. So he wants the unlocks, but he wants the ZKeys too.

As others have argued, and I agreed with (though I guess too subtly for you), they said not to bother with the unlocks and just buy said items via PvE by selling the almighty ZKeys.

It's just like every other discussion here about "QQ make easier, I don't want to grind blah blah blah" You have a choice, PvE or PvP, HA or a Dungeon, play GW's or go outside, watch football or watch hockey, ZKeys or unlocks, it is what it is. You can't have your cake and eat it too all the time, tis a life lesson to learn.

Quote:

Have a useful thing to say or dont post wow

Take your own advice